'AITA for being brutally honest with my friend about why women don’t like him?' MAJOR UPDATE

"AITA for being brutally honest with my friend about why women don’t like him?"

Yes this is a long post but it’s a long story. Hear me out. My friend who I’ll refer to as Nathan (25M) has had horrible luck with women for a very long time. He does have a bright future ahead of him though in regards to career. He’s just graduated college last year and is currently in Law school.

However he’s been homeschooled his whole life, and does ALL his college courses and law school online, not in person; which leads me to this next point: He’s never had a girlfriend, never been out on a successful date, is still a virgin and lowkey doesn’t have many friends in general either so his social skills are REALLY underdeveloped.

His only real socialization was with older people (parents, grandparents, fellow elder people) and me (met through family friends) so he was kind of raised very...sheltered and doesn’t have anything in common with anyone his own age, let alone women his own age.

To top that all off, he’s been nothing but super focused on school and being the best student he can be so grades were his number 1 priority during his developmental years which there isn’t anything wrong with that, however he never took a break to live life or have any experiences in life.

Nathan has had multiple girls his family introduced him to starting in 2021 all the way till now and they’ve been trying to get them to give him a chance but they end up just not liking him. I really hate to not be on his side and support him through his constant rejections from multiple girls, but it’s gotten to a point where all these girls have the same complaints about him:

Nathan’s about 5’2 and body wise, very skinny/petite-built.

He is also starting to bald, and has no bodily strength whatsoever either; he starts shaking just from holding a grocery bag.

I hate to sound rude, but the truth is the truth: He is built like a little girl and has the hairline of a father of 3. While I understand height can’t be changed and not necessarily his hair either, he can at least start working out and possibly add some weight/muscle to give him SOME manly appearance so I mentioned him doing this with me in general conversation with him.

Whenever I go to the gym I tell him to come join me as a hobby or just to be my gym buddy. He declined numerous times and the one time he did go, he struggled lifting a 10 lb weight…so he stopped going.

Okay, whatever. The way Nathan dresses is very grandpa vibes (tucks in shirt, dress pants/slacks and dress shirts on an ordinary day, etc) I asked him why doesn’t he dress more comfortable everyday, like a jogging outfit, a hoodie, some jeans/sweats, and that he should wear sneakers instead of Freddie Benson dress shoes everyday.

He doesn’t think anything’s wrong with how he dresses, and he wants to look “professional” since he’s gonna be an upcoming lawyer one day. I explained to him Lawyers dress in suits and ties, not tucked in button up flannels. And they also don’t dress like that everyday either, just when they’re on the job. Sadly, he wasn’t having it.

Then it finally hit me: it’s his damn personality, or the lack of it. See, I’m not trying to talk down on him, but if we’re gonna go by objective reality: He has the personality of a brick. I’ve seen with my own 2 eyes how he talks to girls, how he acts on dates etc; he cannot make a conversation to save his life. He is not funny either, and has 0 charisma.

He’s a literal mute on all double dates and 1 on 1 dates he’s been on, and it’s so painfully awkward to watch. It’s not like the girls aren’t trying either, I’ve managed to get him dates however they go nowhere due to his sheer lack of confidence, personality or interest. When he talks to a woman, it’s like all that he knows how to talk about is just…school. And if it’s not school, it’s just radio silence.

Or some s#$t that only boomers would understand or care about. I’ve also noticed how every time him and I go out somewhere, and I’m not sure if it’s due to his size; he is SCARED and flinches whenever people walk past us and he’s always afraid that doing anything or going anywhere fun or interesting is too “wild” or “dangerous” for him (I.E Concerts, bars, amusement parks etc).

So I did it. He whined and whined, kept being full of bitterness, complaints and negativity, talking bad about women and saying they never want good men and they only want players or good looking tall guys. So I ended up telling him straight out that the reason he doesn’t get anywhere with girls is because he’s a dork.

I told him I don’t care if he’s a dork since I’m not the one dating him, but that girls crave excitement, fun, or at least someone they can talk to about anything or have fun experiences with etc. I told him he refuses to change anything physically about himself, and to top it all of he won’t even make himself at least interesting or fun to be around and he is completely dull.

That is why he can’t pull or keep. He then got mad at me and accused me of “picking on him” and “making fun of him”, and that I’m “holding his life circumstances against him” (no public schooling/socialization) to which I told him I am not and I wish I was just saying non-sense, I am telling him the truth.

I explained to him that his lack of social skills and appearance isn’t necessarily his fault, however if someone’s giving you advice on what’s stopping you from getting where you want to be and how to change it, you should take that advice and quit complaining and just thinking everyone should accept you as you are because newsflash: we all have flaws.

I told him that if he wants get somewhere with girls and not have constant competition then he needs to have something to make up for it, because there are plenty of lawyers and future lawyers in the world and simply saying “I graduated college” isn’t gonna make somebody have a connection or attraction to you.

He told me I’m jealous that he’s getting somewhere in his life academically, and that other girls are the problem for not seeing his worth and future success and that if that’s not enough for them to be with him, then they’re the ones not good enough for him.

I have not talked to him since then and I refuse to associate with someone who thinks I’m jealous of them for giving them constructive criticism to a problem they constantly complain about.

My dad is saying I’m right but also that it’s probably an insecurity on his part and I should apologize and try not to be too hard on him. I feel like I shouldn’t be friends with somebody who can’t ever see what’s wrong with them or accept their flaws without crying about it and blaming others though because that’s just plain toxic to me. AITA?

The internet had a lot to say in response.

Visual-Lobster6623 wrote:

“holding his life circumstances against him” (no public schooling/socialization)"

NTA - like you said, it's not about his past, it's that he doesn't even want to attempt improving himself.

Going to the gym doesn't even have to be about working out, it should be about learning to socialize. Maybe he needs to take an art class, yoga class, or something just so he can learn how to talk to people in general before he goes on dates.

OP responded:

I’ve tried to introduce him to a lot of my friends, you know so he can try to have a friend group. He failed numerous times to get along with them due to lack of anything in common or once again, not being able to make a conversation or even say something funny to at least break the ice.

He also thinks they’re all “reckless, dangerous and bad influences” because they go to parties and drink here and there. They’re literally 25+, so I’m not sure what’s the big deal if they party or have a beer…

missbean163 wrote:

So I work in a hospital and I see a lot of men during the worst time in their lives. The in sickness part of things. I've seen very big men with lovely wives. I've seen long term double amputees with chronic health conditions with cool wives.

Men with complex, chronic health conditions. Men who are balding, or not traditionally attractive. Older men. Short men. The men in happy relationships, and/ or who are punching up, all treat me, a woman, as an actual human, even when they're in agony, even when im wiping their bum.

I can chat to them- they have passions and interests and they are good conversationalists who see me as a human being. Having a man weaker then me wouldn't be a turn off; but having an incompetent man would be. Having a man who can look at our toilet rolls and go, oh, there's two left, ill buy more now before I forget- don't underestimate the effect this will have on ladies.

Limited interests- I know a lot of men- autistic and not- who have very specific interests. For some, its their career, some its a hobby, some its movies or something. What counts is passion without arrogance. I know at least three uni tutors who are not conventionally attractive at all, but their faces light up in class when students ask questions.

No question is dumb. They genuinely love this topic. They welcome emails. And they have much younger female students with crushes, or who want to call them daddy. Of course these guys never would, but thats part of the appeal- they're safe, they're trustworthy, they're good people. It also heaps if you're a good listener. Which ties into my first point. Treat women as humans.

unsyr wrote:

The part about him being jumpy and scared whenever anyone passes by him is what stands out the most. Is it possible that he was abused? He was home schooled so no one would’ve seen anything but a lot of times that is the reaction people develop when they have to walk on egg shells as a child in their home because they didn’t know what to expect from parents and when they would get mad at something.

OP responded:

No, he was not ab#$ed. He was a very loved child actually. Maybe neglected developmentally, but not abused. He’s just paranoid of the outside world for some reason.

[deleted] wrote:

NTA. But as unrelated practical advice, I think asking him to do things he knows he would not enjoy like concerts and bars is not helpful. I would encourage him to find and pursue time in a hobby he has any sort of potential interest in.

Because then you can talk to other people who also pursue that hobby, which immediately gives you something to talk about. Usually it's not too hard to find a club or group for any potential hobby that exists. This is really helpful for people who are bad at holding conversations.

OP responded:

Oh I’ve tried that, the thing is he has no hobbies or interests. He’s just school, family, school, family and more school. I’ve recommended hobbies to him, like getting into cars, sports, even video games; all of it is unappealing to him so long as it’s something fun and not something to do with being ultra serious, respectful and studying unfortunately.

Puzzleheaded_oil_467 wrote:

I think you should be able to deliver candid feedback among friends, there should be enough safe space. But I doubt the advice itself. You can't "undork", people form personalities formed through nature and years of nurture. Hence the advice is pretty useless, he won't be able to act on it.

I personally believe more in doubling down on your strengths/interests. He has dorky strengths/interests, so let him own it. He is all into studying law? Join a group of likeminded students which study big cases over the weekend. I'm sure there are girls which are dorks too.

[deleted] wrote:

You sure this isn't Autism bro?

I'm saying this as a late diagnosed Autistic man. Only I also have ADHD which needs a late diagnosis which forced me to go out do d#$gs and get laid in University.

OP responded:

I’m ngl, I kind of had a feeling for a couple years that might of been his issue especially since mental disabilities run in his family (his brother had down syndrome and passed away). But even then, most autistic people are already kind of aware that they’re a little off from others and simply just need to be told what to do/not to do in regards to social cues and they grasp onto it quickly.

Also I’ve met many autistic people who actually had a personality. My friend absolutely REFUSES to accept that he’s kind of a weirdo and that he has none at all, so I’m not sure where that’s landing for him.

Three days later, OP shared an update.

I just wanted to say that I got in contact with Nathan and apologized to him for being too harsh towards him. I tried explaining to him that even though I was harsh, I was just frustrated and trying to help him since I figured he’d needed someone to be blunt with him, but it wasn’t my intention to hurt his feelings or anything.

I made sure to express that I do care about him as a person and just wanted to guide him since he seemed lost in the world of dating.

He didn’t really accept my apology, told me that I’m on the path to being a broke, loser bum because I’m in a different field than him and he has decided that everything I told him was just out of jealousy and that he thinks, and I quote “he is owed the highest form of respect for being a good man who is a future legal representative” and since I wasn’t giving him that, that we should stop being friends.

He also attempted to tell me that I should watch out from disrespecting him because in the future my life will be in his hands and he’ll have the power to put me in jail (???).

I assured him that jealousy and the highest form of respect definitely wasn’t the case lol, but if that’s how he feels then so be it. At least I know I tried and did my part. I also wanted to answer some questions I seen people leave under the OG post for some clarity:

Yes, he is 5’2. Yes, he is very skinny and small. Every physical attribute I’ve mentioned and described is real. Some people thought I was over exaggerating or just straight up lying, but I am not.

For those asking how is he doing college/law school online, he was studying online classes at University of Florida, as for law school I know which one he is doing but I won’t say for privacy purposes.

As for WHY he’s been doing nothing but home/online his whole life, it’s because his parents are really overprotective of him. They were consistently worried about school shootings, kidnappers etc, even to this day.

For those asking if his families religious, yes they are. However mine is too, and many others; this has not stopped anyone from growing into a different or better person nor has it caused me or anyone I know (besides Nathan) to have a one track mind.

For those asking if he is autistic, he isn’t diagnosed so I don’t wanna say yes, but does he exhibit signs of severe autism? Yes, yes he does. The lack of social/self awareness was a clear sign for me, but I don’t wanna label him that if I’m wrong.

For those who mentioned how he plans to be a lawyer with no talking/social skills: I mentioned this to him during our last conversation. I told him forget about women, and politely explained that he also needs to improve his communication and social skills if he plans to be a lawyer because without that he isn’t gonna make it very far.

He told me he’s “got it all figured out” and as long as he gets that degree, that’s all he needs to be ultra successful in law.

I told him that’s not how it works and you quite literally have to be slightly manipulative and convincing in order to make a name for yourself because what good is your degree if you suck at actually performing your job? He once again tried to tell me that I’m jealous and don’t know what I’m talking about.

So yeah, after all that I’ve accepted that our friendship is over and I’m not sure where he’s gonna land in the future, whether in regards to romantic relationships or his actual career, and I was also the only friend he had so I do wish him the best and hope life doesn’t humble him to the point of no return. I don’t think he’s a bad person, just out of touch with reality, and I hope that doesn’t backfire too harshly on him.

The internet continued to share their thoughts in response.

[deleted] wrote:

In the original post you mentioned that he had a disabled sibling who passed young. Your (former?) friend isn’t necessarily autistic. His parents coped with the pain of one child dying by isolating their remaining child “for safety.”

They kept him away from life experiences and developing social skills by never putting him in situations where he was forced to learn to interact with other people. He’s wildly ignorant as a result, and arrogant in his ignorance.This is developmentally normal for a young teenager. Just how old was he when his brother passed?

If you have the mental bandwidth, keep a line of communication open. If and when he realizes that he’s been neglected, he may reach out to you. You don’t have to put up with any BS, but if he’s honestly gotten to that point, a kind word or three could be part of how he develops.

OP responded:

He only passed a year ago. Not long enough to shield Nathan from the world. They’ve been doing this.

peppermintvalet wrote:

He’s going to get eaten alive in a firm, but that will be his lesson to learn. But I doubt he’ll even manage to get a foot in the door.

anoomano wrote:

I feel like Nathan's parents are to blame for his attitude towards OP. The stuff Nathan said about OP being jealous and that he will be an instant success as long as he gets a degree sound like a parent telling them child that everything will be ok and it's not your fault, everyone is just out to get you that's all. Very sheltered by the way OP describes why he was homeschooled and does online college classes.